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	<title>Comments on: Official Notice And Tips For Responding To Rejections Based On Official Notice</title>
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	<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/</link>
	<description>A practical patent prosecution blog published by Michael Kondoudis</description>
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		<title>By: Paul V. Keller</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4970</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul V. Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 18:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4970</guid>
		<description>If you want to traverse official notice after the subsequent action, simply do so.   In my opinion, you are unlikely to have a problem unless you are traversing the official notice for the first time when it is repeated in a final rejection.  In that case, the examiner may cite MPEP 2144.03 in refusing to dig up evidence.  If that happened and I needed to press the issue, I would file an RCE.

MPEP 2144.03(C) has some worrisome language.  It states that if there has been official notice and applicant has not objected, the examiner should inform the applicant that the fact is being taken as admitted.  I know of no law or regulation that would make such silence a binding admission.  The failure to traverse Official Notice is on similar ground with the failure to separately argue a dependent claim rejection.  It is routine for a reply not to address moot points, such as arguments that apply only to dependent claims when strong arguments addressing the independent claim rejections are already being presented.  If the USPTO were to start arguing that these implied admission are binding, the result would be routine traversal by attorneys, lots of extra work for examiners, and unhappiness all around.  As a practical matter, I do not see that happening.

Any experienced patent attorney knows better than to make needless work for an examiner.  The examiners have it hard enough as it is.  Maintaing good rapport with examiners is the key to smooth and effective patent prosecution.  I recommend against traversing a point of official notice unless the traversal relates to one of your better arguments.

I was enough concerned about this issue modify the boiler plate at the conclusion of each office action reply to the following:

The applicant requests reconsideration of the pending claims in view of the foregoing amendments, remarks, and arguments.  The applicant believes this reply places the application in condition for allowance and deems further traverse, including traverse of official notice, moot at this time.  The applicant reserves the right to traverse additional aspects of the office action at a later date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to traverse official notice after the subsequent action, simply do so.   In my opinion, you are unlikely to have a problem unless you are traversing the official notice for the first time when it is repeated in a final rejection.  In that case, the examiner may cite MPEP 2144.03 in refusing to dig up evidence.  If that happened and I needed to press the issue, I would file an RCE.</p>
<p>MPEP 2144.03(C) has some worrisome language.  It states that if there has been official notice and applicant has not objected, the examiner should inform the applicant that the fact is being taken as admitted.  I know of no law or regulation that would make such silence a binding admission.  The failure to traverse Official Notice is on similar ground with the failure to separately argue a dependent claim rejection.  It is routine for a reply not to address moot points, such as arguments that apply only to dependent claims when strong arguments addressing the independent claim rejections are already being presented.  If the USPTO were to start arguing that these implied admission are binding, the result would be routine traversal by attorneys, lots of extra work for examiners, and unhappiness all around.  As a practical matter, I do not see that happening.</p>
<p>Any experienced patent attorney knows better than to make needless work for an examiner.  The examiners have it hard enough as it is.  Maintaing good rapport with examiners is the key to smooth and effective patent prosecution.  I recommend against traversing a point of official notice unless the traversal relates to one of your better arguments.</p>
<p>I was enough concerned about this issue modify the boiler plate at the conclusion of each office action reply to the following:</p>
<p>The applicant requests reconsideration of the pending claims in view of the foregoing amendments, remarks, and arguments.  The applicant believes this reply places the application in condition for allowance and deems further traverse, including traverse of official notice, moot at this time.  The applicant reserves the right to traverse additional aspects of the office action at a later date.</p>
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		<title>By: docket</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4758</link>
		<dc:creator>docket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4758</guid>
		<description>Is it still timely if a traversal to an Official Notice is submitted in a subsequent response (instead of the immediate response to the Office Action having the Official Notice) where the Examiner repeats the same Official Notice in subsequent Office Actions and hasn&#039;t yet indicated that the Official Notice is taken as admitted prior art?  Please explain your answers.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it still timely if a traversal to an Official Notice is submitted in a subsequent response (instead of the immediate response to the Office Action having the Official Notice) where the Examiner repeats the same Official Notice in subsequent Office Actions and hasn&#8217;t yet indicated that the Official Notice is taken as admitted prior art?  Please explain your answers.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert K S</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4744</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert K S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4744</guid>
		<description>e6k: Thanks for your civil response.  I confess, though, I don&#039;t understand what you&#039;re talking about re: distinction between &quot;common knowledge&quot;/&quot;basic knowledge&quot;/&quot;common sense&quot;.  Can you help me out?  What is the difference between &quot;common knowledge&quot; and &quot;basic knowledge&quot; or &quot;common sense&quot;?  Are you saying that if the PTO takes official notice on the basis of &quot;common knowledge&quot;, then it need not back up the notice, once challenged, with a reference or an affidavit, because &quot;common knowledge&quot; somehow differs fundamentally from &quot;basic knowledge&quot; and &quot;common sense&quot;?

It seems like you believe that the PTO indeed excised that section of the MPEP to stop applicants from citing it, but that you don&#039;t have any inside information one way or other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>e6k: Thanks for your civil response.  I confess, though, I don&#8217;t understand what you&#8217;re talking about re: distinction between &#8220;common knowledge&#8221;/&#8221;basic knowledge&#8221;/&#8221;common sense&#8221;.  Can you help me out?  What is the difference between &#8220;common knowledge&#8221; and &#8220;basic knowledge&#8221; or &#8220;common sense&#8221;?  Are you saying that if the PTO takes official notice on the basis of &#8220;common knowledge&#8221;, then it need not back up the notice, once challenged, with a reference or an affidavit, because &#8220;common knowledge&#8221; somehow differs fundamentally from &#8220;basic knowledge&#8221; and &#8220;common sense&#8221;?</p>
<p>It seems like you believe that the PTO indeed excised that section of the MPEP to stop applicants from citing it, but that you don&#8217;t have any inside information one way or other.</p>
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		<title>By: Lazarus Long</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4743</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazarus Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4743</guid>
		<description>6K, you rambled that:
&quot;Good god, even primaries are fing this up. 

Where is your motivation for your legal conclusion of obviousness LL? Or do we not use motivations since KSR?&quot;

For an example like this, what I gave IS sufficient motivation.  Could I give more explanation?  Yeah, if I wanted.  But for this example it was not necessary and was not the point of the example, anyhow.

Stating that it would have been obvious &quot;conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses&quot; establishes the &quot;why&quot; of motivation (one of the Graham v Deere tests.  Remember?)  It points out that the claimed printer is conventional &amp; replacing the generic printer of the ref. with any other conventional one is just basically a matter of routine engineering &amp; choice for the application it is to be used for and the type of printer used as an output does not effect the claimed invention which the ref shows.  Even BEFORE KSR nothing much else would have been needed.  Now, WITH KSR what I said is probably MORE than is even necessary.

So, in your 18 months (or whatever) of &quot;wisdom&quot; how would YOU have written it?  I can not wait to see.


LL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6K, you rambled that:<br />
&#8220;Good god, even primaries are fing this up. </p>
<p>Where is your motivation for your legal conclusion of obviousness LL? Or do we not use motivations since KSR?&#8221;</p>
<p>For an example like this, what I gave IS sufficient motivation.  Could I give more explanation?  Yeah, if I wanted.  But for this example it was not necessary and was not the point of the example, anyhow.</p>
<p>Stating that it would have been obvious &#8220;conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses&#8221; establishes the &#8220;why&#8221; of motivation (one of the Graham v Deere tests.  Remember?)  It points out that the claimed printer is conventional &amp; replacing the generic printer of the ref. with any other conventional one is just basically a matter of routine engineering &amp; choice for the application it is to be used for and the type of printer used as an output does not effect the claimed invention which the ref shows.  Even BEFORE KSR nothing much else would have been needed.  Now, WITH KSR what I said is probably MORE than is even necessary.</p>
<p>So, in your 18 months (or whatever) of &#8220;wisdom&#8221; how would YOU have written it?  I can not wait to see.</p>
<p>LL</p>
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		<title>By: e6k</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4741</link>
		<dc:creator>e6k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4741</guid>
		<description>&quot;As to claim 666,Smith shows the use of a printer but does not indicate that the printer can be a laser printer as claimed. One of ordinary skill in the art would have known that a laser printer is a well known and conventional printer (Official Notice; see MPEP 2144.06). Therefore, to one of ordinary skill in the are it would have been obvious that a laser printer can be used as the generic printer of Smith because of the conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses.&quot;

Good god, even primaries are fing this up.  

Where is your motivation for your legal conclusion of obviousness LL?  Or do we not use motivations since KSR?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As to claim 666,Smith shows the use of a printer but does not indicate that the printer can be a laser printer as claimed. One of ordinary skill in the art would have known that a laser printer is a well known and conventional printer (Official Notice; see MPEP 2144.06). Therefore, to one of ordinary skill in the are it would have been obvious that a laser printer can be used as the generic printer of Smith because of the conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good god, even primaries are fing this up.  </p>
<p>Where is your motivation for your legal conclusion of obviousness LL?  Or do we not use motivations since KSR?</p>
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		<title>By: e6k</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4740</link>
		<dc:creator>e6k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4740</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why? Was some aspect of Zurko superseded? Or was the MPEP’s interpretation of the Zurko decision deemed inaccurate?&quot;

No, applicant&#039;s misrepresented what was being said in Zurko.  The holding is just as true today as it ever was.  Common knowledge not basic knowledge or common sense.  If your examiner had actually stated that the knowledge was common sense, or basic knowledge then it would have been appropriate to cite that portion.  

What we got were morons like yourself, and probably thousands of others, who decided to traverse every official notice, even the proper ones, taking notice of &quot;common knowledge&quot;, with that statement.  Incorrect traversal.  And they were probably tired of seeing it happen and since it was an easy mistake for attorneys to make, they wanted to stop causing them make the mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why? Was some aspect of Zurko superseded? Or was the MPEP’s interpretation of the Zurko decision deemed inaccurate?&#8221;</p>
<p>No, applicant&#8217;s misrepresented what was being said in Zurko.  The holding is just as true today as it ever was.  Common knowledge not basic knowledge or common sense.  If your examiner had actually stated that the knowledge was common sense, or basic knowledge then it would have been appropriate to cite that portion.  </p>
<p>What we got were morons like yourself, and probably thousands of others, who decided to traverse every official notice, even the proper ones, taking notice of &#8220;common knowledge&#8221;, with that statement.  Incorrect traversal.  And they were probably tired of seeing it happen and since it was an easy mistake for attorneys to make, they wanted to stop causing them make the mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Lazarus Long</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4739</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazarus Long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4739</guid>
		<description>I agree with your posts that many/most of the takings of official notice (ON) are either poorly done or just plainly improper.  Probably because most examiners are not properly taught how &amp; when to take ON &amp; when NOT to take it.  And too many forget that the taking of ON is basically a placeholder for a reference to be named later (if necessary) and a statement of obviousness is still required to make the rejection.

Personally, I always try to get them to take it as little as possible.  And then only for really well known items (i.e., things an average person on the street would know which is a lot more restrictive standard than required).

For example, I would write it something like:

As to claim 666,Smith shows the use of a printer but does not indicate that the printer can be a laser printer as claimed.  One of ordinary skill in the art would have known that a laser printer is a well known and conventional printer (Official Notice; see MPEP 2144.06).  Therefore, to one of ordinary skill in the are it would have been obvious that a laser printer can be used as the generic printer of Smith because of the conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses.

thanks,

LL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your posts that many/most of the takings of official notice (ON) are either poorly done or just plainly improper.  Probably because most examiners are not properly taught how &amp; when to take ON &amp; when NOT to take it.  And too many forget that the taking of ON is basically a placeholder for a reference to be named later (if necessary) and a statement of obviousness is still required to make the rejection.</p>
<p>Personally, I always try to get them to take it as little as possible.  And then only for really well known items (i.e., things an average person on the street would know which is a lot more restrictive standard than required).</p>
<p>For example, I would write it something like:</p>
<p>As to claim 666,Smith shows the use of a printer but does not indicate that the printer can be a laser printer as claimed.  One of ordinary skill in the art would have known that a laser printer is a well known and conventional printer (Official Notice; see MPEP 2144.06).  Therefore, to one of ordinary skill in the are it would have been obvious that a laser printer can be used as the generic printer of Smith because of the conventionality of such printers and because Smith is not limited to any particular type of printer and a laser printer would function equally well as the generic printer that Smith uses.</p>
<p>thanks,</p>
<p>LL</p>
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		<title>By: Robert K S</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4738</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert K S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4738</guid>
		<description>In our prosecution work we regularly referenced the part of MPEP 2144.03 B that cited Zurko (&quot;holding that general conclusions concerning what is &#039;basic knowledge&#039; or &#039;common sense&#039; to one of ordinary skill in the art without specific factual findings and some concrete evidence in the record to support these findings will not support an obviousness rejection&quot;) in replies to office actions with 103 rejections.  However, this citation has been removed from the MPEP between the July 2007 and September 2007 editions.  Why?  Was some aspect of Zurko superseded?  Or was the MPEP&#039;s interpretation of the Zurko decision deemed inaccurate?  Or was the PTO just getting too many responses calling them on bad &quot;official notice&quot; rejections and decided that they wanted to disincentivize such type of applicant response by excising that part of the MPEP?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our prosecution work we regularly referenced the part of MPEP 2144.03 B that cited Zurko (&#8220;holding that general conclusions concerning what is &#8216;basic knowledge&#8217; or &#8216;common sense&#8217; to one of ordinary skill in the art without specific factual findings and some concrete evidence in the record to support these findings will not support an obviousness rejection&#8221;) in replies to office actions with 103 rejections.  However, this citation has been removed from the MPEP between the July 2007 and September 2007 editions.  Why?  Was some aspect of Zurko superseded?  Or was the MPEP&#8217;s interpretation of the Zurko decision deemed inaccurate?  Or was the PTO just getting too many responses calling them on bad &#8220;official notice&#8221; rejections and decided that they wanted to disincentivize such type of applicant response by excising that part of the MPEP?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4735</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4735</guid>
		<description>Most of the time Official Notice refers to &quot;the art&quot; without specifying what &quot;the art&quot; is.  You can, and probably should, traverse Official Notice in such cases because the Official Notice is ambiguous and overbroad.  We, as practitioners, should force examiners to state their findings on the record so that we can appeal, if necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the time Official Notice refers to &#8220;the art&#8221; without specifying what &#8220;the art&#8221; is.  You can, and probably should, traverse Official Notice in such cases because the Official Notice is ambiguous and overbroad.  We, as practitioners, should force examiners to state their findings on the record so that we can appeal, if necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: EvilDave</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4734</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4734</guid>
		<description>I have also been seeing Examiners take Official Notice of legal conclusions (that X is obvious).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have also been seeing Examiners take Official Notice of legal conclusions (that X is obvious).</p>
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		<title>By: EvilDave</title>
		<link>http://patentablydefined.com/2008/11/19/official-notice-and-tips-for-responding-to-rejections-based-on-official-notice/comment-page-1/#comment-4733</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patentablydefined.com/?p=65#comment-4733</guid>
		<description>I find that often Examiner&#039;s take &quot;Unofficial Notice&quot; as frequently as possible.
This is where they make an off hand comment that limitation X &quot;is a design choice&quot; or some other glib comment and move on.
The trick (for them) is to not mention that they are taking Official Notice.  I assume in the hopes that you won;&#039;t notice, and won&#039;t traverse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that often Examiner&#8217;s take &#8220;Unofficial Notice&#8221; as frequently as possible.<br />
This is where they make an off hand comment that limitation X &#8220;is a design choice&#8221; or some other glib comment and move on.<br />
The trick (for them) is to not mention that they are taking Official Notice.  I assume in the hopes that you won;&#8217;t notice, and won&#8217;t traverse.</p>
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